Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome. Welcome, one and all, to another episode of the Kiki Christian podcast. Of course, I am your host, Pat. And with me, as always, my lovely co host.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: As always.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Well, now, yeah, you're my new norm.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Okay, we'll go with that.
Hi.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Who are you?
Melissa.
You got to let the people know who you are.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Normally you already say who I am.
That's not been my job before.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: You have one job.
Right.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: You're the announcer.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: I'm the announcer. Now go.
So in this episode, we want to tackle.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Want to.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: Want to. That's what I said. What did I say?
We want to.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, you sounded. No want to. Two separate words.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: What she said.
This is what's happening, right?
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Not wanna.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: No.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: So in this episode, we are going to.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Oh, dear Lord.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: We fix into.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: No.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Okay.
We're going to talk about proper vetting.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: And proper speaking and grammar.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: And apparently we're going to have an english lesson, too.
That's a bonus for everybody.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: You're welcome.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: You're welcome free of charge.
And when I say vetting, I mean vetting, not petting.
Not like petting the kitten.
Vetting. And what vetting means is, how would you describe vetting in the easiest and simplest way? I mean, it's making sure.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: It's kind of like fleshing out.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Fleshing out. There you go. Is that proper English, fleshing out?
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Of course I said it.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Of course you said it.
When you vet someone in the lifestyle, it's pretty much the same as dating.
So when you meet somebody in any way, shape, or form, you talk to them, you get to know, find out what you have in common, find out what you don't have in common. You find out their likes, their dislikes, values. Values, morals, that kind of stuff. So you want to get to know the person.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: It's the same thing in the lifestyle, but you have to take it to another level. And that is because, especially when you're trying to develop a power exchange relationship, you really need to know who you're getting involved with because there is a level of trust and even confidentiality.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: That you don't always deal with in what we call normal vanilla. Vanilla. I don't like the term vanilla, but I know that's what people use. But in the standard relationship, because I.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Wouldn'T even use standard.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: Well, everyone knows what we mean in the non BDSM power exchange community.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: I'll roll with that one.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: You want to go with that one?
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: We'll come up with a word or a phrase that everybody likes? Never.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: It's not our job.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: No. So in the non bdsm power exchange world, you date, you get to know each other.
In the BDSM power exchange world, you now have to decide if not only is this the type of person you want to be with, but is this the type of person you want to allow to have control over you in any level, is this the type of person you trust to inflict pain on.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: Your person or to even touch you?
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Or to touch you?
And is this the type of person that you feel is not going to abuse the gift that is given them?
And I'm talking both ways. Not just vetting a dom, but vetting a sub. Because believe it or not, subs can be very manipulative and controlling.
They can play on a dom's desire just to get what they want out of the relationship. So a dom can be played by an improper relationship with the sub just as much as a sub can be abused and played by an improper relationship with a dom.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: I agree with that.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: That makes sense. You agree?
[00:06:00] Speaker B: I agree, yes. So it's people.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: It all comes down to people. And we all have our own little quirks and things that we do and we don't always meld.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Correct.
And just as there are abusive people in the real world, in just normal relationships, there are abusive people in power exchange relationships.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: The only real difference between the relationships is that extra added level that you're putting in there of a power exchange or BDSM.
Other than that, it's just people having relationships.
So in the BDSM power exchange world, we call it vetting. You vet somebody.
You could basically call it the same thing in the non power exchange world too. Because no matter who you're dating, no matter who you're in a relationship with, you need to find out what kind of person they are.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: It's information gathering research. It's like if you're looking for a new doctor.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: You're going to do your research.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Hopefully.
You should.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: You should, yeah.
If you're wanting to have any kind of relationship with any person, regardless of what their status is going to be.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Friendship.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Right. Any person in your life vetting should be something that you do, period.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: And that doesn't mean, oh, I talked to them online for a week.
Let me put a caveat there. I guess that's how I want to say it. If that's what you're looking for is just an online, because when you're online it's different.
Because, for instance, if you're just looking to go online and live this little fantasy life online and then go back to your real life. And the person you're in this relationship online with is all good with that, too. And it's just a fantasy. And then you go away. Then they're not going to come to your house. You're not going to share those personal information. You're not going to share, like, phone numbers, you're not going to share addresses. You're not going to share personal information to where they can come stalk you. And if you're both okay with just saying, hey, we're just going to have this little fantasy world, I don't want to get to know you. I don't want us to meet up in real life. We'll get together, we'll play, and we'll go our separate ways.
Then you're fine.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: I think even in that situation, though, if you think about it, you would kind of vet to a point.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: To a point. But what I'm saying is maybe a week's worth of vetting, a week's worth of talking to them online may be enough where you both just like, yeah, we're not into anything more than that.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: I don't want deep, I just want a superficial.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: I just need an escape. It's kind of like reading a book. You don't vet a book. You just read the book. And if you don't like the book, you put it down and go get another one. Same thing. I know there are people who do that online. They just want to get in, have their little fantasy, and then they're good. They go about their business.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: I just ask, don't ghost. If you're going to step away from the relationship, step away with the relationship. With respect.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: This isn't working. Okay? We've had our fun. This has been a nice fling for me.
I'm ready to move on. The ghosting thing is just very inconsiderate.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: It's improper.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It's rude. It's disrespectful. And you know me, with respect, it's not.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Okay, well, it's disrespectful to the other person that's being ghosted. It's disrespectful to the relationship that was there. No matter how exactly surface and superficial the relationship was. It was a relationship.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: All relationships should end properly.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Not just cut off and that's it.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Rude.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: I mean, even friendships. Don't ghost a friend. Don't ghost anyone.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Period.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: It's not. Okay.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Yeah. It's frowned upon.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: In this establishment, 100%.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: But yeah, vet. Vet everyone to the extent that you should vet them. If you're looking for something more serious and looking to get involved, even if you're looking for professional services, because there's a lot of professional doms out there and people go to them just for that little bit, vet them, make sure they are the type of dom you want. So vet everybody to the degree that they should be vetted. And when you're doing that, what you're going to find is there are as many different types of doms out there as there are people.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: And subs.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: And subs. Yes, vet your subs, too. So everything we say goes both ways.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: So when you're vetting a person, whether it be a dom or a sub, realize that you're going to find a bunch of ones that feel the same way you do, a bunch of ones that don't feel the same way you do.
And the whole gambit in between, they feel this way and you agree with that, but then they feel this way and you disagree with that, which is okay, too. And that's all fine. That just means you need to move on to another person or decide, I can live with that. Exactly. Either way.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: My issue, I don't want to call it an issue, but there's something that I've been seeing a lot lately and it kind of bothers me because I'm the type of person who likes to always approach every instance assuming positive intent, which means you go into it giving everyone the benefit of the doubt that they're not doing anything to be malicious or whether they are or not is not. You don't know that going into a situation, so you assume that their intentions are always positive.
That being said, there's a lot of stuff going on right now with this whole fake Dom. Oh, what's a fake Dom? They're a fake dom. Oh, I can't believe that's just a fake dom.
And that bothers me because nobody is assuming positive intent. They're assuming that this person is a fake dom because this person doesn't do things the way they want it done.
They're doing things that they disagree with. Some of them are just immediately diving into, hey, they're aggressive. Give me your phone number. Let me hook up with you. So they're aggressive. That doesn't necessarily make them a fake Dom. There's a million things that could be going on with this person.
They may not have the education in the lifestyle that they need. They may not have a mentor to guide them. That may just be their style of Dom, of dominance and their kink.
There are doms out there that are abusive. That doesn't make them fake. That makes them abusive. And that's why you vet if you don't want. Because some subs like to be abused.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: That's their kink.
So calling people fake bothers me because we don't know this person. We don't know whether it be a fake dom, fake sub, whatever. We don't know them.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: We don't know they're snagging my shirt.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: Am I snagging your shirt?
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Your dragon's biting me.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Is it?
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: I'm sorry for not being italian. I talk with my hands a lot.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: Now, I'm not so italian that if you shut my hands down, I can't talk.
But my hands like to just keep.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: It up on the pillow.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Well, I'm trying, but I like touching my kitten.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah, well, your dragon is biting me.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: Let me see if I can move my dragon around.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Behave.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: Just tell the dragon.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Play the dragon, would you?
[00:15:12] Speaker A: I did that when I put a collar on you.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's valid.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: So anyway, squirrel. Squirrel.
I don't like the term fake dom. I don't like the term fake anything because we don't know. So that's what vetting is for, to find out. Is this the kind of person that you want to be in a relationship and whether it be dom or sub?
Like I said, there are some subs that will do anything in the world and say anything and manipulate and play games to get what they want in a relationship.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: So doms can be, especially if they're frenzied.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Well, we've covered sub frenzy and that's a horrible thing.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: And that's something that there are doms that will. I say doms. There are people that will take advantage of that situation.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: That is correct.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Trying to vet when you're in a frenzy is probably not going to happen.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So how do you do that?
How do you handle that situation? Because you're already so emotionally charged and almost like the drug addict.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: How do you settle yourself and be.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Rational for you, Miss therapist? How do you do that?
[00:16:55] Speaker B: I mean, I think for me, you.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: Got to self trigger some way, shape or form unless you have someone in your life who can calm you down.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Correct. So when you have a dom who is educated or, well, I mean, that helps. Who has been in the lifestyle for a time enough to recognize what's going on, they could help.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: But you have to have someone who's willing to help calm. Calm the frenzy, to have the conversations that need to be had, to establish whether or not the relationship is what both of them want and be able to make this. I say make, but show the sub how to honestly think about what it is that they want, not that what they want is to please them.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: And that's difficult, though, because when you're in a frenzy, it's easy to convince yourself and others that you're not. Oh, no, I'm calm. I'm thinking rationally.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: I'm okay, this is what I want.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: And inside you're going, oh, got to have it, got to have it.
So a lot of it actually goes to the person in the frenzy. They have to be open enough to listen to things and it's very difficult, especially, like you said, when you're a drug addict, the desire is just flowing through your body.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Right. They need to have someone who is able to pull them back to have the conversations before they put themselves in a bad situation.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: That's the sad thing, though, is because there are people out there that see, because it's easy to tell when someone's in a sub frenzy.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: Online it's a little more difficult, but it's still kind of easy to tell because you just push a little bit and if they start caving, then, you know, you can hook them, you got them.
And that's the sad thing, is because there are abusers. I mean, I get it. People call them fake.
They truly want to dominate, but they're abusive.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: And if that's your kink, that's all fine and dandy. If that's what you both want.
The dom wants to be an abuser and the sub wants to be abused.
Fine.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: As a therapist, that's not fine.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Right?
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Well, for me, that's not fine.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: And I guess using the word abuse is kind of the wrong thing because abuse is always wrong.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah, but if the aggress being aggressive.
[00:20:09] Speaker A: That'S a better word. Thank you. If someone wants that aggression and that kind of consensual non consent, that's where I'm going. Not abuse. Abuse is always wrong. So don't listen to allah saying about abuse.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: He was wrong.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: Well, it's not that I was wrong. I was calling it the wrong thing. It's not abuse.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: If someone wants that style of dominance, then that's fine.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: As long as it's agreed upon.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: As long as it's agreed upon. So the aggressive, the CNC, the pushing and the prodding and the trying to get you to do things you don't want to do. If that's what you want, that's fine. Abuse is never. Okay, so I was just using the wrong terminology there.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yes. You're welcome.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Thank you. That's why I got you.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: I just should have said something earlier.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Well, yeah, but I got down that train and I wasn't thinking. Yes, I know, but, yeah, abuse is always wrong.
Vet as much as you can.
Why are you laughing?
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Because I keep squirreling. I keep squirreling you, and then you look at me like I looked at.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: You with nothing but love.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Is that what that is?
[00:21:29] Speaker A: What that is?
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Okay, we'll go with that.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: We'll go with that.
Now, when you vet someone, do not ever be afraid to ask any question at all.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Because if you're going to be in any kind of relationship with this person, any information that you deem necessary to advance a relationship is fair game.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: And if they choose, and it's also on them, if they choose not to answer that question, then you need to decide just how important that is.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Because they don't have to answer that.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Correct. They do not. Because they also have the choice. They are vetting you at the same time you're vetting them. Or at least they should be.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: It should always be mutual.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Mutual.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Mutual.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Consensual.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Consensual. Anyway, both ways.
It should always be a situation.
You should always be vetting each other and figuring out, like I said, it's just like dating. When you go out on a date with someone, if you're going out on a date with someone and next thing you know, someone else comes up and they start kissing on them, and all that you got to decide, is that really what you want?
And then you find out, oh, that was my ex. And yeah, we're still sleeping together.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: And by the way, I'm in a poly relationship.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: You have to decide.
So that is why vetting should take some time. Yeah.
To me, if you're not putting a month or two at minimum into vetting somebody, I think you've gone too quick.
Even like when we first started dating. Now, granted, we were young, and I knew as soon as I saw you I loved you.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: We were young and dumb and full of it. Yeah, we thought we knew everything.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah, you always think you know everything when you're young. Then you get older and you realize how stupid you really were. Yeah, but we took it slow.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: We did.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: I mean, it was a very intentional.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Process because we wanted to make sure.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: That it was going to last.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: It was going to last even at a young age. Yeah.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Well, because I think we had both been in bad relationships and knew that wasn't what we wanted.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: That's correct.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: And I think that's the key is if you've been in a bad relationship, learn from that. I see so many friends of mine and so many people that I know that they come out of one bad relationship and jump right into another one.
I can't tell you how many times we've watched shows where they interview people and they're like, yeah, I always go for the bad guy, or I'm always with the same type of person, and that's not what I want. That's not what makes me happy. And when they have a chance to step outside that and pick something completely different, something that is probably going to be better for them in the long run, what do they choose? They choose the bad boy. They choose the comfort.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: What they know, the consistent comfort.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
But I think we are a little different because we're like, even though when we first got together, it was very different than what either one of us had been in, we knew that's what we wanted.
So we came out of the bad relationship and we dated. We vetted. We didn't jump into the sack with each other right away.
Heck, it took me three weeks to get a kiss from you because. Yeah, stingy with the kisses.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: That's okay. It's still part of the vetting, which.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Is what we learned. So you move at a different pace.
Again, it depends on what you want out of the relationship.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Do you want just a fling? There's not much vetting going on with that. If that's what you're looking for and you're both okay with it, you don't really need a lot of vetting.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Are you clean? Do you have diseases?
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Well, the problem is you can say anything you want. I think we should all have to.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: Carry cards Std free.
And if I'm not, I have condoms.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: Well. And they'll tell you. Herpes? No. Gonorrhea? No. Syphilis? No.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Vaginal warts? Yes. You know what I mean?
Not that I have vaginal warts.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Me either.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, just. I don't have a vaginal.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: Anyway.
Squirrel again.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Well, even that is part of the vetting, especially 100%. If you're going to make it a physical and intimate relationship.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Yeah. You need to know.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: You need to know the health risks involved.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: All health risks, not just sexual diseases. It's heart.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: All of that because someone have a heart attack on you while you're.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: That'd be a bad.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: While you're whipping them or a seizure or.
There's a million things that can happen. So it's all part of vetting.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: Yes.
Know what you're getting into.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Know what you're getting into for the level of relationship that you're getting into.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: And understand that just because someone doesn't see things or do things the way you like or want them to doesn't mean they're fake.
They may be, like I said, just undereducated, not educated at all.
That may be their kink. They may need a mentor.
That may be who they are.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Mentors are valuable.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Mentors are very valuable. So anyway, that's our story on betting.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Agree? Disagree.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I think.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: Anything you want to add?
[00:28:01] Speaker B: Nothing that I can think of. It'll be after we're off camera.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Drop off the air.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Then you're going to be like, crap.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Should have said, yeah, that's what I do.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: That's usually how it happens.
All right, so until next time, people, stay safe, take care of each other, and God bless.
